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Developing for web 2.0, is it easy?

Posted by Arjen on March 26th, 2007

Developing web 2.0, specifically rich internet applications (RIAs), has become the latest craze on the internet. eBuddy is one of the many examples that bring complete applications to the users’ webbrowser. But is it easy to develop such applications?

For years we have developed software, however the biggest change with web 2.0 is the tooling. Software used to be made by writing code, compiling it, running unit tests and debugging it when necessary. Javascript, the language that makes the web applications dynamic, does not have all the normal tooling for development.

Only recently have some projects come into existance to fill that gap, most notable firebug and venkman and only on the Mozilla (and derivatives) browsers. Internet Explorer, which has the largest user population, actually has close to no such tools. So the only way to make your applications work properly (from Javascript point of view) is experimentation.

The oddest possible thing about this situation is that Microsoft has the reputation for building some of the most innovative development environments as well as providing extensive development references for their developer base. So why is it their own browser lacks the most basic tools to do software development?

So, is developing for web 2.0 easy? If you are building RIAs I would, sadly, have to say no. The use of the technology has greatly outpaced the creation of a good development environment and who will rise to fill this gap? The open source community is trying to provide the proper tooling, however on the Internet Explorer platform the creation of such tools is greatly limited by the closed nature of the platform, so how will we, as a developer community, fill this gap?

12 Comments View blog reactions
  1. John Verhoeven Says: March 26th, 2007 at 8:23 pm

    IMHO Venkman pales in comparison with FireBug.

    Do you guys know Fiddler? http://www.fiddlertool.com/fiddler/

    “HTTP Debugging Proxy which logs all HTTP traffic between your computer and the Internet. Fiddler allows you to inspect all HTTP Traffic, set breakpoints, and “fiddle” with incoming or outgoing data.”

    Nice stuff (and NET 2.0 version is here: http://www.fiddler2.com )

    TamperData (similar) is also interesting: http://tamperdata.mozdev.org/

    FireBug however ruulz!

  2. James Says: March 26th, 2007 at 9:41 pm

    > The oddest possible thing about this situation is that Microsoft has the reputation for building some of the most innovative development environments as well as providing extensive development references for their developer base. So why is it their own browser lacks the most basic tools to do software development?

    MSFT has had a script debugger that integrates with Explorer for quite some time. Developing AJAX apps for IE has been pretty straightforward since the late ’90s.

  3. Arjen Says: March 27th, 2007 at 9:46 am

    James,

    Where can I find this debugger? Everyone I have talked to has had no knowledge of this…. so please enlighten me ;)

  4. Arjen Says: March 27th, 2007 at 9:46 am

    John,

    Thanks, I am checking them out as we speak.

  5. Menno Says: March 27th, 2007 at 10:02 am

    > MSFT has had a script debugger that integrates with Explorer for quite some time. Developing AJAX apps for IE has been pretty straightforward since the late ’90s.

    True, however I have found their tool to be less than reliable. Actually, there have been many different debuggers delivered by MS over the last years:
    http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2004/10/26/247912.aspx

    However, every JavaScript developer on IE is still dealing with the same cryptic error messages with the same useless line number as I’ve done since the late 90’s ;)

    I think the point Arjen is making is not so much that there are *no* tools but that the tools available have been seriously inferior compared to the tools for application developers or even server-side developers. Firefox tools like Venkman, TamperData and Firebug are an enormous leap forward in that respect but there’s still a long way to go.

  6. Yousef Says: March 30th, 2007 at 9:51 am

    If you use MS Visual Studio to edit your javascript files (in a web site project I think) you’re able to set breakpoints and all kinds of other debugging stuff. Make sure ‘disable script debugging’ is unchechked in the IE Tools->Internet Options->Advanced menu.

    The next vesion of Visual Studio will also include Intellisense support, more on this here: http://weblogs.asp.net/scottgu/archive/2007/02/08/my-first-look-at-orcas-presentation.aspx/ (scroll a bit to the bottom).

  7. CAMI Says: April 7th, 2007 at 2:21 am

    LINDO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  8. Paul Says: April 13th, 2007 at 11:00 am

    Internet explorer dev toolbar (helps view the DOM etc)

    http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=E59C3964-672D-4511-BB3E-2D5E1DB91038&displaylang=en

    Microsoft script debugger:

    http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=2f465be0-94fd-4569-b3c4-dffdf19ccd99&displaylang=en

    but i prefer to use the one in Visual studio

  9. Jason Says: April 13th, 2007 at 6:29 pm

    The Visual Studio Script Debugger has been far and away the best JavaScript debugging Tool ever since Visual Basic 6.0. It’s funny that nix-heads are getting all excited about firebug given that all these years later, it still doesn’t even offer the same debugging functionality Visual Studio had 6 years ago (try setting a breakpoint in an inline script block in your html with firebug).

  10. faissal Says: April 29th, 2007 at 10:52 pm

    je veux faire les fotos de mes amis et ma famille ici

  11. Roberto Gallina Says: May 4th, 2007 at 3:33 pm

    por favor compartir esta pagina, que me imagino que es buenisima

  12. eBuddy Blog - So you wanna debug your Ajax apps in IE? This is how we do it! Says: July 5th, 2007 at 5:53 pm

    […] Arjen already mentioned the bliss of debugging in Firefox and commenters talked about external debuggers for IE. Now, let’s take a look at what IE has to offer natively, i.e. without the need to install any browser add-ons. This is the subject that hurts us developers the most. All we can do is pop up alerts to show what our application is doing (and when it stopped doing stuff!). An alert dialog box halts the entire application and can drive us crazy when it’s invoked inside a loop-statement. […]

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